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avatarevolution
(Stranger)
01/04/08 02:13 PM
3D Character Contest Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

 Hello Fellow Artists!!

Do you spend most of your time creating virtual characters and worlds? Can you create realistic 3D humans? Then have we have got the contest for you!!

Humanity Online is looking for the World’s Best 3D Modelers. So submit your best 3D characters by Feb 15th and you could win cash prizes up to $3000 and a contract offer to create more 3D characters!

Go to:  http://Contest.HumanityOnline.com to Submit your characters and to check out the rest of our rules and regulations.





Dyald
(Stranger)
02/04/08 02:36 PM
Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

The rules are kind of vague, I make a lot of characters that are custom morphs for Daz aiko, hiro, etc. is this permitted? Or do the models have to be made from scratch?



MatrixWorkz
(Enthusiast)
02/04/08 07:04 PM
Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: Dyald]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

The rules do seem vague but his post is pretty specific that they're looking for actual "3D Modelers" not morph makers or dial twisters. Though how they would be able to tell from just rendered Submissions is beyond me. There's no mention of submitting the actual models or textures used.

 

It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein



dadchamp
(Member)
02/04/08 09:35 PM
Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: Dyald]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

  • Winners of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd-place prizes further agree to deliver and grant full rights to Humanity Online LLC to own and use the full 3d character, including all source files and textures needed to create the character, hair, and clothing. The winning 3d characters, as well as source and texture files become the property of Humanity Online LLC and the artist conveys all rights to Humanity Online LLC;
  • They are definately looking for original content and not morphed models if they want full right to use the source files, character, hair, and clothing. Dial twisters need not apply.



    --
    I don't fear God anymore. Anything he/she can do to me now is only adding insult to injury!


    MatrixWorkz
    (Enthusiast)
    02/05/08 01:11 AM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: dadchamp]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    Ah The guidelines were definately not very clear then. I guess I should have tried clicking on that "Enter the Contest" link. I guess they figure if they're giving $3000 to the winner, they get to own your work.

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein


    avatarevolution
    (Stranger)
    02/06/08 09:57 AM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: Dyald]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    The character does NOT have to be made from scratch.  It’s okay to use a base character from Daz, etc. then customize it with morphs, textures, clothes, lighting, materials settings, etc. to create a unique character.
     
    We are looking for artists who can combine all of these factors to create realistic, compelling, attractive characters that exude humanity and personality.



    MatrixWorkz
    (Enthusiast)
    02/06/08 12:32 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    Excuse me? I'm sorry but your rules state that the character becomes your property once the winner is decided. You CAN NOT own any character made from a Base DAZ figure no matter how you wish to word it. You'd better check with a lawyer on the wording of your rules if you wish to allow DAZ characters into the contest, or any other premade geometry based characters for that matter. No winner will be able to send the geometry to you for figures that are not redistributable. Period! End of Story! If they do, both you and they will be guilty of copyright infringement!

    Winners of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd-place prizes further agree to deliver and grant full rights to Humanity Online LLC to own and use the full 3d character, including all source files and textures needed to create the character, hair, and clothing. The winning 3d characters, as well as source and texture files become the property of Humanity Online LLC and the artist conveys all rights to Humanity Online LLC;

    I'm smelling a scam! 

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein



    Dyald
    (Stranger)
    02/06/08 02:41 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: MatrixWorkz]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

     Maybe this will help,

    Michael, Victoria, Hiro and Aiko are figures, Annette, Jaqueline, Manfred and Charles are my characters based off of those figures. I own the rights to those characters and Daz has given and encouraged the use of their figures for that purpose. I think the key terms are Figure and Character. They are looking for a Character and I can give the rights to my characters to anyone I want.





    MatrixWorkz
    (Enthusiast)
    02/06/08 02:50 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: Dyald]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    The key term is "Source Files".  They need to change that part of the rules or you can't legitimately hand over the source files to DAZ, Poser or any other copy righted figure. Source files covers geometries so unless they get more specific about which source files they will be claiming ownership of at the end of the contest, you can't enter copyrighted figures.

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein


    avatarevolution
    (Stranger)
    02/06/08 05:37 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: MatrixWorkz]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    This question about copyrights is often asked.  The way we deal with 3rd-party characters for Poser is that the artist sends us a PZ2 file that injects the morphs the artist has created.  Then we apply those morphs to the appropriate character.  (We have already purchased nearly *every* conceivable base character set that is available.)  Other 3D programs work in other ways. 

    This is a technical detail that we will work out with each artist to ensure they transfer files in a way that respects and preserves the copyrights of all parties.

    Our primary focus is on stimulating interest in 3D characters, and creating a venue for artists to show off their works, and form relations with our favorite artists, and providing prizes as incentives to participate.

    Sarah





    MatrixWorkz
    (Enthusiast)
    02/06/08 07:10 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    Well I still say you need some legal eagle to rewrite your rules because as they stand now they're too all encompasing regarding source files.

     

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein



    dadchamp
    (Member)
    02/06/08 08:47 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    You scare me .... you are treading a VERY FINE LINE.

    I for one will not go this direction. This is courting disaster and for me has SCAM written ALL over it! Been there! Done that! Got the burns to prove it!



    --
    I don't fear God anymore. Anything he/she can do to me now is only adding insult to injury!


    MatrixWorkz
    (Enthusiast)
    02/06/08 11:09 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: dadchamp]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    It's definately walking a fine line between scam and shadey with the wording they used in their rules. I'd never give up ownership of my source files for a unique character that I made myself! Not for $3000 anyway! I'd give em' my files to use but not ownership at that price!

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein


    dadchamp
    (Member)
    02/06/08 11:29 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: MatrixWorkz]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    The 3K ain't bad. Heck, I've done custom characters for people for Poser for free (normally I charge around $300 to $400 for a basic character) but I do that because I know the Poser community by and large is poor! LOL Look at me! LOL  But if these people expect to be taken seriously as a leggit business, they better do some long hard looking at the legalease in their contest rules ... it needs a lot of work. And for a company that is less than a year old with no visable track record? Can we say grab the rights to some high quality characters and make a run for it??? Way to shady on a sunny day for me ...

    --
    I don't fear God anymore. Anything he/she can do to me now is only adding insult to injury!


    avatarevolution
    (Stranger)
    02/07/08 04:18 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: dadchamp]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    well we are a new company, learning as we go.  Trying our best.  If you have suggestions for improvement, and constructive criticism, let us know.  Otherwise please keep your slanderous claims to yourself.

    Regarding copyrights:

    The question of copyrights is often asked.  The way we deal with 3rd-party characters for Poser is that the artist sends us a PZ2 file that injects the morphs the artist has created.  Then we apply those morphs to the appropriate character.  (We have already purchased nearly *every* conceivable base character set that is available.)  Other 3D programs work in other ways.  This is a technical detail that we will work out with each artist to ensure they transfer files in a way that respects and preserves the copyrights of all parties.

    Our primary focus is on stimulating interest in 3D characters, and creating a venue for artists to show off their works, and form relations with our favorite artists, and providing prizes as incentives to participate.

    Sarah

     





    webwyvern
    (Stranger)
    02/07/08 05:14 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    Hi Sarah,

    I'm not a lawyer and I certainly do not wish to be contentious in any way. I'm curious about what these avatars actually consist of. From what I gather from this site, it sells customised avatars to people for their own websites.

     I'm assuming these avatars are 2D image sequences placed into some type of shell (flash, etc.).

    This sounds perfectly legitimate according to my understanding of the Daz licensing of their characters.

    If they are distributing the 3d geometry of the characters in a format that would allow someone to extract the geometry without purchasing the base character, then this would be against the license agreement.

    I would hope that the artists here would ask some questions to find out what is happening before they pushed the panic button.





    Dyald
    (Stranger)
    02/07/08 10:24 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    I have a few questions, Will we get credit as the artist in the characters. Exactly how will our characters be used, and will you be selling the characters or just the imagas made from them.



    MatrixWorkz
    (Enthusiast)
    02/08/08 12:35 AM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    Nobody has written anything that could be construed as Libelous. Yet. Insinuations are not libel and written accusations are not slander. You'll need to know the difference between the two. Also, you still have not addressed the language you used in your rules. Doesn't matter what you say to us here in the forums. Your written rules still can not be construed as legal with the current wording used. Change that wording and be more specific and folks will be less likely to make accusations against you.

    Just a little history lesson here. There have been many attempts to steal content in the 3D and Poser community. Folks are going to be very wary of anyone who doesn't present a squeaky clean set of legal rules for any contests where rights of proprietary ownership of materials and content is concerned. Learn that fast and learn it well and you'll succeed in your endeavor. Ignore it at your own risk.  When someone points out the vagueness of your rules, it's not slander (Or libel to be precise) it's merely our attempt at getting you to update your rules so they don't leave wiggle room for theft.



    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein


    gl2nn
    (Stranger)
    02/08/08 02:51 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: MatrixWorkz]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    Hopefully i can help clear up some questions. 

    First and foremost, the main goal for this contest is to make contact with skilled 3D artists.  We will be creating many characters for our company over the next year or two.  We have already paid about $20K to artists to create about 30 characters for us. I have personally spent about $2000 of our company's money to purchase a wide variety of the base character meshes, textures, clothing, hair, props, etc.  We have a much larger future budget to continue to create many more characters and enrich the artistic community.

    We want to make contact with new artists and pay them to create characters for us.  The contest is one way we are doing this.  this is the first time Sarah and i have set up a contest like this, and we're doing the best we can.

    If you visit our website www.humanityonline.com, you can see that we provide 3D hosts for websites (as our first phase of services).  So we are looking pay for 3D characters to animate for our customers.

    With respect to copyrights, for each winner, we will talk with every related content provider to ensure their rights and IP are protected and compensated.  If anyone has specific, constructive suggestions about how to best do this, let me know!

    For example, what specific edits to the rules would make them more clear?  We didn't want to make the rules too lengthy and lawyeristic, but if there is something important missing i will edit them.  i've already made two edits, based on feedback from the community. :)

    I'm a 3D artist myself (not very good, but i'm learning ;-), so i totally understand and insist that our company observes all copyright interests.  One of the things i really like about our founder is that he does things right, and builds companies to last. you can see my awful, amateurish attempts here:  http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=165576

    cheers,
    glenn





    MatrixWorkz
    (Enthusiast)
    02/08/08 04:55 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: gl2nn]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    Glenn,

               I've already pointed out the particular text of your contest that calls it into question regarding legalities. I've also said you should consult someone in the legal profession regarding the wording changes you should make. As it stands now the words "including all source files and textures needed to create the character, hair, and clothing. The winning 3d characters, as well as source and texture files become the property of Humanity Online LLC and the artist conveys all rights to Humanity Online LLC;" are where you're tripping up. You can't claim ownership of "All Source Files". You can claim ownership of "All Source Files Created by the Contestant" but not the souce files they used that belong to someone else. If that isn't clear enough for you then I'm done trying to explain it!



    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Albert Einstein


    avatarevolution
    (Stranger)
    02/25/08 05:16 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: MatrixWorkz]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    We listened to the suggestions from the community (that’s you ;-) so we posted an update to the Contest form page that helps to clarify that we will do whatever it takes to protect the rights of content providers, and make sure everyone gets paid for their IP.  This should help clear up misunderstandings and we want everyone to know that we are serious about this. We look forward to seeing your entries by February 29, and showing the world your artwork and talents!  Cheers,Sarah





    Dyald
    (Stranger)
    03/02/08 01:10 PM
    Re: 3D Character Contest new [re: avatarevolution]Report this article as Inappropriate to us !!!Login to Reply

    I'm sorry that I missed the deadline. Thanks for rewording the term of the contest. Your patience is amazing.




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